BellaOnline Forums News and Politics Civil Rights "Merry Christmas"...a time to tar and feather?

Is the display of a nativity scene in violation of the Constitution?

I think it somewhat depends.... Was government money used to buy the pieces for the scene? Is the scene set up in a way that it's overbearing and difficult to ignore? Is it somehow used to preach or to try to convert people?

I think there's a big difference in, say, the little old secretary at the town clerk's office having a little nativity scene set up on the corner of her desk than a GIANT full-motion neon manger scene set up in front of the junior high school, complete with live chickens and goats. Okay, a little extreme, but you get my gist.

I wonder if they had chickens at the original manger scene? <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Sorry

Seriously, in what context are we talking? Obviously I'm not going to be offended by a manger scene, but I do realize that other peoples taxes pay for the grounds keeping of public buildings.

The one I've found interesting is what about the White House? I feel since the President and his family live there, if they want to put up a manger scene, it's their right. But many others feel that since his "housing" is paid for (in a sense) it should remain neutral. Of course we've only ever had Christian Presidents (well, I believe some say that Jefferson was an atheist or rather a humanist); so the theory has never really been put to the test.

I think Jefferson considered himself a deist, actually, as did Washington and Franklin (yes, I know Franklin wasn't a prez). I don't mind if the Bushes have a manger scene in the front lawn, as long as they buy it. I don't mind paying for their lawn to be mowed, or the hedges to be trimmed, and whatnot, but I don't really want to pay for a big ol' Christmas tree and a few thousand lights. I also don't want to pay for a big ol' menorah. Or a big ol' hearth altar. Or a big ol' statue of Ganesha. (That right there may have been the first time in history that the phrase "Big Ol' Statue of Ganesha" has ever been used).

I'm just cheap, that's all there is to it. Celebrate your holidays and worship your God(-s, -dess, -desses) as you will.... I rejoice in that freedom that we have! It's just not my job to pay for it. I'm from a multifaith family, I already have to pay for a boatload of stuff for our own numerous holiday celebrations.

But seriously, the White House is the Bush's house, for now. If they want to decorate it as they see fit, fine (I'm envisioning lots of antler racks). Just don't make me pay!

Megan

Megan, I was going to quote certain things, but your whole post just cracked me up! LOL

Oh, I agree with your take on the overbearing display that pays more homage to the local powerplant than to Christ's birth. Yet I am surprised by the level of political correctness that has sprung up in recent years. It seems that folks are so afraid of offending someone, and some folks are suddenly realizing how terribly offended they are, that people (such as schools) go to an incredible extent to do away with any mention of Christ. Christmas trees are now named holiday trees (even though I am hardpressed to find another holiday that uses a Christmas tree), and even the mall Santa wishes us "Happy Holidays." What other holiday has someone dressing up in red garb letting out a deep "ho ho ho" every so often?

I agree that using public funds for the purchase of such decorations is a bit suspect, but if other decorations can be bought as well, then I don't see the problem. As a matter of fact, I think it would be great if we could celebrate a bunch of different holidays for all to see, and then perhaps we could learn a bit more about each other and see what makes us tick rather than shrink back in offense.


What do you think?

Well, the context really could be anything. I was stunned when I read about some schools that have done away with the more religiously themed songs. If you're gonna have a Christmas play, and a Christmas tree, and a guy in a red suit, then for crying out loud call it what it is...it's a little late for the inclusionary "happy holidays" if the place looks like Christmas land. (Sorry to get off on a rant here.) <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Sometimes I wonder if folks are getting offended because someone is telling them that they could be. For example, seeing a Menorah would not offend me. But would I be susceptible to the idea that I could/should be, I wonder...

They call it Christ-mas. The name is originally Catholic for "Christ's mass". If you are celebrating Christmas then include Christ. If you don't include Christ then don't celebrate Christmas. It is His holiday ( which comes from holy-day). It IS a religious holiday.

Wow...that was a deep discussion.
Serious, funny & all kinda good things.

At Xmas time my email blew up with messgs. about
the Christmas tree. I couldn't believe so many people
were getting so hyped, about this stuff.

Okay, I can hear some folks locking & loading their
pistols behind, that comment.

And, Megan -you with the "live chickens and goats"
man...I needed that giggle. I got your gist, though.

All jokes set aside, I rec'd one of Jases' Newsletter.
I wasn't even an Editor, then. He was celebrating a
holiday. It was his religion/faith/practice of "Xmas."
(I don't remember the proper name.)

He shared with his readers the essence
of his holiday. And, that was to say
"I'm Sorry" to anyone you might have hurt
by your words, knowingly or unknowingly.

It was much more eloquently spoken, than
what I wrote. I believe Jase is Jewish.
And, I am not.

BUT, it touched my heart. I learned from it.
And, I called someone up. Now, that's Xmas,
to me.

So Merry Xmas, Happy New Year, Happy 4th of July,
Happy Ground Hog Day, Happy Happy Happy!!!!!

Vicki L. Forte'
Bellaonline
Crime Editor <img src="/images/graemlins/rolling.gif" alt="" />

Don't forget "Happy Easter"...oops...this would be opening a whole other can of worms (or bunnies), wouldn't it?

Easter, another Christian holy-day.

All I know is that things were much better way back when I was growing up and everything was Merry Christmas AND Happy Easter.

Back then it was a big deal (not to mention rather rare) when a knife was found on a HS student. Now we have kindergartner's carrying guns to school?

Yes, it was a much better time and I'm rather grateful I don't have to raise children in these "un-holy" times.

The little kids aren't the ones getting insulted by the Christmas, Halloween, or Easter parties (they like getting all the cupcakes and candy!)

Like InsanitysAngel said, there are a lot more serious things to worry about than what color plate we put those cupcakes on!

Has anyone ever considered the fact that by taking away all the innocence of childhood, and making these kids consider every aspect of each little thing they say or do might be politically incorrect - that we are the ones turning them into the knife and gun weilding stressed out sociopths that we are seeing? Our children hardly have a chance to be kids anymore. They have to watch our for pedophiles, terrorists, bigots (race, religion, whatever). Is it any wonder they can't trust anyone? <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Do you think that childhood's innocence has been lost for good, or do you think it can be reclaimed?

I think Christmas should remain a religious holiday. That way, non-Christians (who comprise the majority of people in the world) won't feel pressured into sharing the holiday.

I wonder if a lot of people would feel the same way if non-Christian holidays became as big as Christmas has become. How would they feel to have it thrown in their faces nearly everywhere they go?

Well, considering that most of the Christmas celebration that is going on is nothing but a commercial free for all, I am not sure which religious aspects folks might feel pressured into sharing. Much of the Christmas celebrations around here center around Santa and gift buying, where every store clerk is properly drilled to wish a "happy holiday" or "joyful winter celebration". <img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

They call it CHRIST-MAS because it is supposed to be CHRIST-IAN.

Who's Ian?