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Cars aren't *made* to impress people. They're a means of transportation. If someone has the "I want to impress people" attitude, they will apply that to anything they own - jewelry, clothing, cars, boats, vacations, houses, girlfriends, etc. Out of those sorts of things, cars is probably pretty low on the list <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> So the "need to impress" has to do with the *individual*, and has nothing to do with the object in question. If you feel a car is something to "impress the world" with, that's you. Maybe you're new to car ownership? I know lots of teenagers who feel that way, but most adults I know don't even think about a car as something to 'show off'. It's how you get somewhere.

Why do you feel it's obvious that you would paint a "cheap" car and not paint an "expensive" car? Again, I think you're looking at your own particular experience and trying to think everybody is the same way. YOU would not paint an "expensive car" (with that line being your own budget). Why? Because YOU would be afraid that others would think it was ugly. YOU wouldn't care about a "cheap car" (again cheap based on your budget), because to you a cheap car isn't "making a statement" to the outside world anyway, so it doesn't matter.

But let's just concentrate on this one point. To you a cheap car doesn't make a statement so is worth "devaluing" with silly decorations. To you an "expensive car" (again with regards to your personal budget) is precious, and is making a style statement, and is therefore going to presented in its pristine perfect shape.

But now expand your mind a bit. Think of someone who grew up dirt poor and for whom the "cheap car" you own is the Ultimate in what they or their family has *ever* owned. If that person thought as you did (i.e. that a car Must Impress Others), they would shine that car, keep it clean, and never paint it, because it would harm this Beautiful Car they owned. Even though if you owned the car, you'd think it was a cheap car.

Now think of a rock star, that just like you cares what others think of his possessions. But to him a Ferrari *is* cheap. He has 15 of them, scattered around at his various houses. He lets his gardeners drive them when he's not around because who cares anyway. They're just Ferraris. He decides he likes dragons, and decides to paint one on the hood of one of the Ferraris to liven it up. To him, this Ferrari is now *better* because it's much more interesting than all those other "boring normal" Ferraris he owns. The car he *really* loves is a 5 million dollar custom made golden VW bug with diamond knobs because he grew up loving bugs. And that one he keeps pristine.

With me so far? OK, now a third scenario. A skilled artist, say Picasso, buys a white Ford Escort. There are probably like 80-quadrillion Ford Escorts on the road that look exactly like his. He enjoys his Ford Escort, it suits him perfectly. But he finds it incredibly boring to look exactly like 80 quadrillion other cars. To go into parking lots and have to figure out among the tons of White Ford Escorts in the parking lot which one is his. To drive down the road and just see copy after copy of his car, to be one of a faceless mob. So one weekend he takes all of his most favorite paint colors, sits down at the car and does a mural of his home town, with his favorite landscapes of his childhood. He looks at his car and is very proud, that now it is special, it is beautiful. Now he drives his car very happily.

Aren't all three of those situations quite understandable? And these all assume the person *does* care what others think of his car. For many if not most people out there, they do NOT care what others think of their car.

AINTD, cars being a piece of metal is not a female thing. It's one of those FACTS like trees are made of wood <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> If you personally choose to think of objects as being "ways to impress other people" that is your choice, and you can choose a car as one of those objects. That was the point, that you have to separate the object from YOUR use of that object. YOU feel it's there to impress people with. YOU feel that "men use cars to impress people with". I'm telling you that when I ask my adult male friends this question (most are over 30) that they say NO. I can also tell you that when I ask my teenage male nephews, both 15, that question, they say YES.

I happen to *love* cars so you're a bit off base when you try to say my car point of view is a 'female thing'. If anything, my take on cars and boats is very "male" if you're going to draw lines like that <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Which I think are invalid anyway <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I am very proud of my Mustang. I love driving it down 'boardwalks' in front of beaches because I think it's great looking. But if others don't think so, I'm not going to change it!

Which again is what some people would say is "male" of me. A "female" attitude would be to change it so that people liked it. According to studies that draw gender lines, men say "Hey, I'm great, everyone admire me!" and Females say "What is it that you like? I want to please you!" <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

You say "Fortunately for me, what I like is liked by majority and what I dislike is disliked by majority" Ummmmm, why is this fortunate? Why would you care what people you drive by on the road are thinking about your car? They don't even know you!! And if someone DOES know you, and they chose to then judge you based on something as relatively meaningless as what car you drove to have lunch with them in, do you really care what they think??

Yes, I enjoy pretty jewelry. And I enjoy pretty clothes. I'm right now drying a beautiful dress I have to wear for dinner out tonight. I'm wearing rings I love, a bracelet I bought for myself that I love. And we're going to go in my silver Mustang which I love. But those things all please ME. If my friend Michele, who I am having dinner with tonight, enjoys them too, that's fine. But if she hates them, I'm not going to stop wearing them because *She* doesn't like them! And if she changes her opinion of ME because of the jewelry I enjoy, or the dress I love, then what kind of a friend is she???

I more or less got your point, very intersting indeed. A few addiotions to them, though. A peroson should always call the things with their proper names. That makes the life a lot more easier, since it won't take you to uncomfortable contradictions.

If a person grew up poor and bought a relatively unexpensive car, then he should have in his mind "Oh well, this car is not top of the range at all, but anyway, I like it and it's all I can have now. I better focus my attention on something else." You must stay realistic about the things arround you and the things you have.

Rock stars, sports stars and actors are not considered by me as normal consumers, so, point not taken. Why? - Because they made a relatively easy and huge money, out of almost nothing actually, out of some gifted abilities. These people, usually are not educated enough to understand the treasure of the things. It is also like the arab multibillionaires, have 100's of cars in their garage. I feel sad for those cars. Anyway, when I see a Ferrari with an eagle or whatever on it, I know who is the owner and all respect suddenly fades.

Probably, the people you've been asking about this do not think about/know/can afford cars. It is understandable. Now Lisa, there is one thing you must be clear with. Either you LIKE cars and do not think of them as mere means of transportation, either you admit that cars are not completely alien to you, but you do not focus too much attention on them. These two things are incompatible. It has nothing to do with male-female thing.

My girlfriend likes cars by colors. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> If she sees a car painted the way she likes, she'll like it. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> And she admits, that she knows nothing about them and find it unimportant. Yesterday she drove a new E-Klass Mercedes, and said "It rode very well" - I was so delighted to hear that, and then she said "It took me where I needed to" and got back to normal. She was teasing me anyway, knowing my attitude towards cars.

If I see an expensive good car on the street the line of my thoughts is: "What a great car. This guy must be someone really respectable." and I have respect for that person because he (or sometimes "she") achieved something. Then of course there are exceptions and disappointments from this matter, but generally it is this way.

Another thing is that a person gets USED TO EVERYTHING ALWAYS ... not matter what ... sooner or later the things you have will stop catching your attention and you'll not think of them as something extraordinary. Expensive cars ARE made to show off in SOME degree. If they all had modest designs, easy to confuse with other cars, almost noone would buy them. If the world was empty, you'd drive any car, because after a while it would all be more or less the same for you. All the values scales would have disappeared. There would be no way in appreciating a thing, but it is not this way.

Why would a person buy a Bentley or an Aston Martin? From technical point of view, they are rather underdevelopped now. BUT, they ware a huge image, price tag and "hand made" tag, which are all appreciated in society that understands something about cars.

Lisa ... you see the jewelry you ware a lot? You constantly look at your fingers ... look in the mirror at yourself to see your earings and neclaces? I don't really think so. Jewelry is a decoration for others to appreciate. You may like your rings and other things, but jewelry is INTENDED to make an impression on whatever person, starting with your own family and friends, ending up with random people who see it. Would you keep on always dressing up, puting on jewelry, making your hair and whatever else if you knew that you're invisible to everyone? I don't hink so. You want to look good for yourself AND for other people too.

I admit that an expensive car CAN be painted the way I could like it. But you do not come across famous designers and painters capable of such work offering such services, do you? It could become state of the art paintwork, but it is not that easy.

Why is it fortunate to share some tastes with majority? It is easier to live this way actually. But you see ... some like BMW's, others Mercedes, others Audi's and some like Volvo's or Jaguars ... but everyone likes a Lamborghini, a McLaren and an Aston Martin. Because everyone knows that THOSE are the top of the range and are desireable for everybody. It is the thing of common values. Most people LIKE expensive things because they bring some joy to their life and by SHOWING them, they rise themselves in "ranking".

A solid gold Rolex, a solid gold Parker, a top of the range car, a suit by Versace, all those things apart from having excellent quality, they all have an incorporated show off value. And I think it is good, why is it bad to you? I'm not buying things TO show off, but when I buy a thing, I know what value it has and such things as "image" and "prestige" do mean something ... it is like an added value.

Interesting topic, indeed. I really hope it doesn't turn out like the other "cars" topic ... :rolleyes:

Aintd, once again you are assuming that everyone likes certain vehicles. "everyone likes lamborgihnis" (excuse the spelling). I personally dislike them. I also had the advantage of growing up in the "hollywood" community. My dad was great friends with people like eddie murphy, david shefield, elliot gould, etc. And I grew up surrounded by these people. I would hate to be in your shoes if they ever read that you feel they are uneducated. These are some of the MOST intelligent people I know. Many of them have degrees, they just choose to do something they love, acting (or writting in the case of david). And because of their intelligence, they make a very good living. You can be uneducated and popular for only a short time. Your smarts are what takes you the rest of the way.

You are constantly making blanket assumptions about how other people live, act, and think. Many people have enough money to buy the cars that you consider status symbols... and they choose not to. Many of those same people disslike those vehicles, for personal reasons. An example is a private party that the celebrities have every year, for the publication of a book called saturday afternoon. If you look in the parking lot, there are NO cars like what you consider high status. I think the most "expensive" car I saw was a dodge stratus.... oh wait, there was also a really nice quad cab pick up in there... I don't remember exactly what kind. Anyway, there were hardly any really truely nice cars there, they were the cars that these people LIKED to drive.

You are also refering to people who make a living off of what others think of them. That's show business, and is not how people normally live. They drive a fancy expensive sports car to enhance an "image" for the public. That image is usually not who these people ARE. Normal people choose what they personally like, not what other's like. There are shallow people out there, who can't live without the approval of others. Those people choose what others like, and hopefully that will make them happy.

The "uneducated" tag applies more to singers and sportsmen than to actors, though to them as well in some degree.

You don't get the point. I'm not saying that you should buy a car to impress people, not at all. For instance, a Rolls Royce will definitely impress anyone, but I just don't happen to like them much. Now, imagine a person, well educated, who has succeeded in life. He needs to prove nothing to noone. He likes an expensive car. Say a top of the range Mercedes or some Italian supercar, so he buys it. These cars cost a fortune and for ALL people who made their money not by luck, but through constant hard work, these cars are a considerable investment.

A car consists of three elements: mechanics, comfort (reasonable) and the image. This last one is only achieved by price tags and exterior design and consists of two parts: exclusivity and prestige. So, cars that have all three elements in them, have the show off value by nature. People that buy these cars are aware of this and are aware of that they PAY for this last element as well and they are more than ready to do so. They want an ultimate car in every sence. If you pay some $150.000 (or more), you WOULD like some reaction from those who see the car, otherwise it may make you upset. Why? - Because, you have paid for all three elements and only benefit from two - unplesant, considering the money you paid. If in a parking lot, you park your expensive car and next to it will be another one just as expensive and as good in mechanics, you WILL be upset if everyone will be passing by and only looking at the other one and not yours, believe me, you WILL. It is a very rare occasion, it's true ... but if you find a Porsche 911 Turbo parked near a Ferrari F360 Spider, the driver of the Porsche won't feel that good.

Now, here is an important remark: that is if you ARE INTO cars, if you don't care, you won't understand it. Also, maybe you consider those kind of cars as a toy and something out of your every day views, so you can't imagine all this.

The people you've mentioned driving modest cars into a party: they just don't care about cars. Some people don't care about clothes, other about food, other about personal items.

Why do you open a bottle of an expensive wine on special occasions? Yes, it will be better than all those which are cheaper, but THAT much better? Will you feel THAT much difference? I don't think so, you will feel the difference but unproportional to the price. But, it will set your mood high, you'll be proud to share it with friends ... it adds special values by it's name and price tag, appart from quality. Same is for cars.

I don't think I'm clear enough here, I have other things to think about, so I don't express my thoughts too well. Maybe in the next post. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Yikes, so you would choose a wine based on its price tag too?? There is NO way I would ever serve a wine based on its price tag or its name. I serve wines based solely on their flavor. In fact there are many 'fancy' wines I would not serve because I don't feel they taste good.

I'm afraid that the very attitude you promote there is one we joke about regularly in my wine forum, the fact that some people in the world serve wine to 'show off' the label. It's just not the way that most wine drinkers think about wine. Come on by http://wine.about.com and into the wine forum, and state your opinion there. I'll let the wine professionals in my forum respond <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

The same is true for cars. Your assumption that my male friends are not into cars is completely wrong. A few of them are mechanics, some of the others are professional car reviewers. They get cars delivered to them every week to test drive. Another one writes about car races for a living. These are guys that make good money and who love cars. But there is no way any of them would buy a car to impress others. They buy a car that THEY love because THEY know a lot about cars.

They DO care about cars. They love them. And to them, the important aspect of a car is that it pleases THEM. They could not care less about someone else's opinion, because they trust their own. "Showing Off" with a car is just not important to them, they have enough self esteem through what they do. They don't have to prove they're of value by buying an expensive car. Again, I think that's why young guys like expensive cars. They have something to prove, and want to "impress the world". But most adult guys don't have to do that.

I am really surprised that you would judge someone based on them driving an expensive car. They could be a pimp! They could be a slimy lawyer, or a stuck up priss that inherited a lot from a cocaine dealer. If anything, I look down on people who feel a need to flash their wealth like that. I judge people based on their actions, not on what they flashily spend cash on. What kind of a value judgement says "lots of cash = respectable"?

When I wear jewelry, I don't have to stare at it. I know I'm wearing it. And I wear it mostly around the house, alone, so your claim that I wear it to show off to others is incorrect. I wear it for MY pleasure.

I think you have an attitude about life - "I want to prove I'm of value by showing off my cash". And you also feel "People with lots of money are respectable". I disagree strongly with both ideas. In the grand scheme of things, I just don't see "has lots of cash" as being a way to judge a person. I don't have any need to "show off" my cash to anybody else. Whether it's related to wine, clothes, cars, or anything else. I want the things I own to matter to *me*, to be things I enjoy. I then want to share those things with others, by sharing the wine, cooking them food, watching the DVDs I own. But it's not to say to them "Look at this great car I have! Doesn't that mean I'm super special?" It's to say "This is a wine I really find to be tasty. Come share it with me." And if anything, if I found a *cheap* wine that is tasty, it's something I'm proud of!

Lisa, pleeeeeeease, don't upset me ... is my english really so baaaaad or is it you reading every fifth word I write? <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

YES, YES, YES ... I would open a bottle of Vega Sicilia Unico for a special occasion instead of the ordinary good wine I dring every day. If you wouldn't do the same, WHAT are the occasions to open expensive wines? A $5 wine can be very good and tasty - true, but for lets say a birthday, when guests are invited - something more special is more appropriate, don't you think? <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

The SAME is for cars. You can go to work on a normal good car, which does not call attention. But when you go for a ride around a beach, early Sunday morning, I'd use something more special to enjoy myself INCLUDING by knowing that the car is attractive to other people. I see nothing sick in it. I have talked to my elder brother and to my father regarding this question and my father (who always buys the most ordinary things for himself, though is able to buy the very best there is) said that a car with this price, MUST be attractive, else, it has not much sence.

Maybe it is the difference between the European and American mentalities? Though it would be strange, since some american people really like to show off beyond the point of normal.

You clean the bathroom and wear gold diamonds on your fingers, Lisa? <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I definitely read all of your words several times before responding <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I didn't say I would not open a *special* bottle of wine. But again you said you would open an *expensive* bottle of wine to show off the price and label you were offering your guests. I was countering that I would open a *great tasting* bottle of wine, regardless of the price or the label. And actually since it would probably be something I decanted, they would probably never know what the price was, and I would only tell them the brand if they asked about it. It's the wine's flavor that is important and special to me, not the price tag nor the pedigree.

"a car with this price, MUST be attractive, else, it has not much sence."

That's the crux of our argument about worthiness of items (not just cars). You feel that to spend lots of money, it must be something you show off to others. I am saying that for me, and for the people I know, we spend a lot of money on something that is important to US as an individual. It may be something that others never see!

I have friends that spend tons of money on sport utility vehicles for going on deep-forest camping trips, or up to ski lodges. Nobody ever sees those cars, the socializing is all done away from the cars. But they pay the money for

* personal comfort
* safety in dangerous conditions
* reliability under extreme conditions

They don't care at all what it looks like or that anyone else likes it or not. They care that they put lots of money into a car that they LOVE. And they love it because it makes THEM happy. Not anybody else. If someone else likes it too, that's fine. But that's incidental. And they'd rather someone else appreciated how great a car it was, not how shiny its paint was.

My friends who buy expensive sports cars do it because THEY like to drive fast, and to be safe when they do so. Again, the outside look to impress others isn't really considered. They want something fast, with excellent handing, good safety, etc. It's all about their own enjoyment.

There are show-offs in every culture. Apparently to you and your family, that show-off aspect is very important. That's fine. It's not to me or to the people I deal with. I suppose if I met someone that was a show-off, they wouldn't be much liked in my crowd, we would find them superficial. So there are undoubtedly show-offs in the area, somewhere.

I wear gloves on my hands when I do cleaning tasks <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> That's like asking if I wear pretty clothes when I sleep. The two aren't related.

Do you cover your ears as well? <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

OK, we're slowly but surely are coming to conclusion ...

First of all, even if I decant wine, I put the empty bottle on the table, because I know that people I drink it with are interested in wine and would like to know it.

As for price tags and labels. On daily basis, I drink a relatively cheap ($8 or around) wine and it is really good and I like it. For special occasions, be that guests or birthday, or something alike, ofcourse, I can put this $8 bottle and there is nothing wrong with it, but it won't contribute to the atmoshere, would it? A good but regular wine, nothing more. Vega Sicilia and some Priorat wines, are considered to be the best, but also are expensive, so, you wouldn't be drinking it wvery day. Is there a better occasion than those I mentioned, to open such a bottle? It has everything, it is perfect ... taste, flavour, prestige, image, label, price tag, everything ... You would put your best dress on for lets say anniversary of your beloved one, or not?

Nope, show off in my family is not priority. But we are realistic about the thing. My father likes M5 for being discreet on the road. It has comfort, power, handling and everything you've mentioned. But then he says, if I was ever to spend insane money on a car (thing he can but doesn't want to do), I'd buy a Ferrari or a Lamborghini or maybe even Pagani Zonda, because these cars are ultimate in design and technology (not so ultimate in comfort <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> ), you don't see your car THAT much from outside, do you? You're usually inside. And it is the other people who are to appreciate (or not) your car. They will remind you, that your car is beautifull by looking at it. If you have paid that money and everyone looks (or better to say: does NOT look) at it like it was Civic, then it is not the right thing. You absolutely must love your car from outside, if it is something special, then others will love it it too, and that will please you too and that is a "show off" value. Don't know if my idea is clear enough ... <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I wouldn't by a car thinking: "OK, this one looks OK and EVERYONE WILL BE MAD ABOUT IT ... I REALLY SHOULD GET IT ..." ... no ... I'd think ... "For this price, the car looks good, I like it and I want it ... and it is also prestigious to drive it ..." ... something like that ...

Of course I don't buy things just to show off. Errr ... maybe not too polite ... if I buy underwear by some famous designer and those cost a lot, that's because I like those. Nobody will ever see me in those! (well, maybe almost nobody ... <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> :rolleyes: ) ...