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OK, you're right, I haven't seen the list, really due to its offensive matter. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> But it's a really stupid idea, to compare different types of wines. It like comparing buses, trucks, sports cars, executive cars and excavators ... insane. Anyway, the fact that there are only two spanish wines (and what wines!) in the list, says it all. That is plain bad. <img src="/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Wonderul! For too long Italian wines have been ignored by the American wine powers.

They had? It's odd, since Italy is the largest wine exporter to USA, no wonder they get the place. Spain represents only 2% of the whole wine market in USA - 2 selections in the Parker's list, very intuitive.

Italy and France both have huge PR efforts to promote their wines and have consumers understand what to serve them with, when they taste good, what they're about. So Americans look at Chianti and think, "I know what Chianti is! I know what it tastes like and what to serve it with. I'll get some".

But as I've discussed in other wine forums I participate in, Spain has *awful* PR. They never promote their wines. So there's no demand for it. Ask most US wine consumers about Spanish wines and they've never heard a commercial for them, never seen them on wine lists, never read about them in magazines. I'm a wine writer and I get tons of literature from the French and Italian PR guys, promoting their wines. I *never* hear from Spanish wineries.

Spain has to do a better job of promoting their wines if they want people to realize they're good. Just look at what Godiva did for European chocolate with some great marketing <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Now people think "Godiva = Great Chocolate!" Why aren't there any marketing blitzes out there for Spanish wines?

Have never heard of Godiva in the first place. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> For me, good chocolate is associated with Lindt or some other Belgium / Swiss companies.

Spanish wine doesn't really need to be that promoted. Rioja makes sh** loads of wine, mostly bad one, they can hardly have a good PR.

Priorat wines are quite exclusive here, the good ones make from 50000 bottles a year, down to 3000 bottles, and ofcourse it is all sold out before it even gets to stores. I guess that's one of the reasons you never really get the spanish wine in USA.

Also, you may disagree, but I think that the less wine a winery makes, the better it will be.

I have spoken to a winery master recently. (Maybe you have even heard of it: Pie Franco from Jumilla). He said that does export to USA, that consumers there like slightly different wine, overheld in barrels to have a stronger wooden taste. They don't really do that here. He also said that some restaurant owner has asked him for 500 bottles of his Pie Franco, and he refused. Of course he has 500 bottles of it, and even more, but not much more, he doesn't want all the wine to go into a single place, but that's what often happens. Spain keeps all the good wine it makes to itself mainly. As I said, Rioja is heavy on exporting. Ask any person, if he knows at least something about wine, he'll tell you "Rioja is great" on Spanish wine. Talk about PR ...

Italian wines. Haven't really tried any, not attracted. I understand they are popular in USA ... maybe because every single town has at least one Italian Restaurant ...

A somewhat good example on similar treatment is in cars, BMW. It's previous M3 models were all a lot less powerful in USA. The good ones sold out in Europe without any problems, the bad ones were made for USA. I guess there are reasons for this, but it's something comparable.

You really should try Italian wines! Italy and France make some of the best wines on the planet, and the range of wines that both make are incredible. There are rich reds, light whites, fruity reds, heavy dessert wines, and everything in between. It's not just the US that drinks a ton of Italian wines, they're shipped all over the world.

The PR problem with Rioja could easily be overcome if the better Rioja wineries got together and marketed together. Italian Chianti companies got together and did the same thing. There are still lots of bad Chianti, but now the good ones really stand out and get the attention they deserve.

Really, you've never heard of Godiva?? I've seen them in France, England, everywhere I've travelled. You need to find some!! They are *exquisite*. Far better than Lindt in my opinion, Lindt's sort of one of my 'casual chocolates'. Godiva is my special occasion one <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Someone on my other forum posted this list of his favorite Spanish wines. Now to see if I can find any!!

Abadia Retuerta Rivola Sardon de Duero 2000 -- 750 Ml -- $10.99
Agricola Falset Marca Etim Old Vines Grenache 2000 -- 750 Ml -- $10.99

Allende Cabernet Sauvignon 1997 -- 750 Ml -- $19.99

Basa Sauvignon Blanc 2001 -- 750 Ml -- $7.99
Bodega Matarromera Crianza Ribera del Duero 1996 -- 750 Ml -- $17.99
Bodegas Angel Lorenzo Cachazo Las Brisas 2001 -- 750 Ml -- $6.99
Bodegas Calcona Partal Crianza Bullas 1999 -- 750 Ml -- $18.99
Bodegas Fernando Remirez de Ganuza Rioja Old Vines 1998 -- 750 Ml -- $39.99
Bodegas Godeval Godella Vina Godeval 2001 -- 750 Ml -- $9.99
Bodegas Ismael Arroyo Valsotillo Crianza 1999 Ribera del Duero -- 750 Ml -- $19.99
Bodegas Ismael Arroyo Valsotillo Reserva 1996 Ribera del Duero -- 750 Ml -- $36.99
Bodegas Muga Blanco 2001 -- 750 Ml -- $8.99
Bodegas Muga Gran Reserva Prado Ena 1995 -- 750 Ml -- $35.00
Bodegas Muga Tinto Rioja 1991 Reserva -- 1.5 Lt -- $70.00
Bodegas Muga Tinto Rioja 1998 Reserva Unfiltered -- 750 Ml -- $13.99
Bodegas Muga Torre Muga 1998 -- 750 Ml -- $51.99
Bodegas Ramirez Ramirez Piscina Rioja Gran Reserva 1994 -- 750 Ml -- $21.99
Bodegas Ramirez Ramirez Piscina Rioja Reserva 1996 -- 750 Ml -- $15.99
Bodegas Reyes Teofilo Reyes Ribera del Duero 1999 -- 750 Ml -- $27.99
Bodegas Y Vinedos Solabal Rioja Crianza 1999 -- 750 Ml -- $10.99
C-Torres C-Gran Sangre de Toro Reserve -- 750 Ml -- $7.99
Campo de Borja Borsao 2001 -- 750 Ml -- $6.99
Condado de Haza Tinto 1997 -- 750 Ml -- $19.99

Condado de Haza Crianza 1998 -- 750 Ml -- $18.99
Dominio de Eguren Codice Tinto 2000 Vino de La Tierra -- 750 Ml -- $6.99
Dominio de Eguren Protocolo Tinto 2000 Vino de La Tierra -- 750 Ml -- $5.99
Dominio de Egurin Protocolo Blanco 2001 -- 750 Ml -- $5.99
Emilio Moro Ribera del Duero 1999 -- 750 Ml -- $18.99
Fernendez La Granja 98 -- 750 Ml -- $27.99
Finca Allende Allende 1998 -- 750 Ml -- $16.99
Finca Allende Calvario 1999 -- 750 Ml -- $49.99
Finca Luzon Merlot 2000 Estate Bottled -- 750 Ml -- $7.99

Lar de Barros Macabeo 2000 -- 750 Ml -- $8.99

Lorinon Blanco 1999 -- 750 Ml -- $8.99

Lorinon Crianza 1998 -- 750 Ml -- $15.99
Marques de Caceres Gaudium 1994 -- 750 Ml -- $60.00
Marques de Caceres Gran Reserva 1991 -- 750 Ml -- $22.99
Marques de Caceres Red 1998 -- 750 Ml -- $12.99
Marques de Caceres Reserva 1994 -- 750 Ml -- $19.99
Marques de Caceres Rose 2001 -- 750 Ml -- $5.99
Marques de Caceres White 2001 -- 750 Ml -- $6.99
Marquis de Riscal Red VT -- 750 Ml -- $12.99
Marquis de Riscal White VT -- 750 Ml -- $6.49

Montecilla Red 1997 -- 750 Ml -- $9.49
Palacio de Fefinanes Albarino 2001 -- 750 Ml -- $16.99
Pazo de Senoras Albarino -- 750 Ml -- $18.49

Pesquera Tinto 1996 Ribero del Duero -- 750 Ml -- $26.99

Pesquera Gran Riserva 1998 -- 750 Ml -- $84.99
Real Sitio de Ventosilla Prado Rey Crianza 1999 Ribera del Duero -- 750 Ml -- $8.99
Rene Barbier Red -- 750 Ml -- $3.99
Rene Barbier White -- 750 Ml -- $3.99
Senorio de San Vincente Rioja Tempranillo 1998 -- 750 Ml -- $29.99
Sierra Cantabria Rioja Coleccion Privada 1999 -- 750 Ml -- $25.99
Sierra Cantabria Rioja Cuvee Especial 1998 -- 750 Ml -- $13.99
Sierra Cantabria Rioja Tinto 1999 -- 750 Ml -- $8.99
Telmo Rodriguez Valderiz Vino Tinto 1999 Ribera de Duero -- 750 Ml -- $18.99
Torres Gran Coronas 1994 Mas Plana -- 750 Ml -- $14.99

Txomin Extaniz Txakoli 2000 -- 750 Ml -- $16.99

Vina Alarba Old Vines Garnacha 2001 -- 750 Ml -- $7.99
Vega de Toro Numanthia 1999 -- 750 Ml -- $29.99
Vega Sindoa Cabernet Sauvignon/Tempranillo 1999 -- 750 Ml -- $7.99
Vega Sindoa Rose 2001 -- 750 Ml -- $5.99
Vega Sindoa Tempranillo/Merlot 2001 -- 750 Ml -- $5.99
Vega Sindoa Viura/Chardonnay 2001 -- 750 Ml -- $6.99

The Godiva Website:

http://www.godiva.com/welcome.asp

Really, try some <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

For this reason many equate Italian wine with cheap Chianti. I remember having a bad Lambrusco served with ice cubes in it. I often joke that the Italians don't waste their good wines on the US.

It's interesting that you haven't really tried Italian wines. Barolo is considered to be the wine of kings and the king of wines.

If you like chocolate give Godiva a try. It's superior to Lindt. My favorite Belgian chocolate is Leonidas.

OK, long time - no siege. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

First of all, some comments on your list, Lisa. There are several good wines, most notable would be the Numanthia wine. But as I sad, out of the list, you can pick some 10 good wines. AND, just as I thought, there is not a SINGLE wine from Priorat. Priorat wines are somethink between spanish and french wines. The region is also high in the north in Catalunya, being close to France. This is point number one.

Point number two. Ragarding corks. I've been doing some reseraching and came across several articles, unfortunately I can not provide you with the links since it will be unreadable to you. You will have to rely on my word and on the people I mention. First of all, cork quality depends DIRECTLY from the quality of the wine, that is: the better and more expensive wine, will have a good cork. Second, in Europe - the serious winemaking community, there are no plastic corks, at least I haven't seen a single one in Spain, nor in France. Believe me, I've seen quite a few bottles of wine. Third, plastic corks are the invention of USA businessmen and are generally used for regular wine. Fourth - no trees are hurt during the production of the corks, so this argument is not valid. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Fifth, good wines have 99.9% in period good cork rate. Thats is: theoretically anything is possible, practically - not. Sixth, I've already mentioned it: Vega Sicilia (the real one) does 3 test of its corks, possibility of a taint is zero.

Bad corks - appear in bad and cheap wine. Think it for yourself, a cork in an expensive wine costs more than some whole bottle of a cheap wine. Do you think that the corks are the same there?

Taint is something that can be predicted, that means, that it is up to winery to find a good cork supplier. Portugal has the best cork trees.
You just need to know where the corks come from.

There are more detailed arguments regarding the cork production, but these are just details that reflect the quality of a cork.

Also, the 10% failure rate thing. If Priorat makes 10.000 bottles a year and Rioja and Ribera del Duero make 10.000.000 bottles combined, it is natural that they, making cheap wine raise this statistic. Statistics is a science of lies:

* If you have two cars and I have no car at all, by statistics, both of us have a car. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
* A joke:
A doctor is asked:
- What is the medium temperature in your hospital?
He says:
- 36'6 degrees! (errr ... that's the normal body temperature in case you have problems with Mr.Celsius).
Very simple: those who're about to die have 42 degrees, and those already in the morgue - around 20. :rolleyes: <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Sad, but that's what statistics are.

Articles I read are based on:

Hugh Johnson "Story of Wine",
Jancis Robinson "The Oxford companion to Wine",
Larousse "Vins et vignobles de France".

As far as I'm concerned, Jancis Robinson is not a good friend of your beloved Mr.Parker, is she? <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Never mind this, just a detail.

To conclude a bit. To Lisa and everyone else. I recommend you not to be blind and try to expand your views. I live in Spain and have a lot of moving on with wines. I like wines. It would be good for your information, formation and education to know what is really going here and not limit yourselves to local sources. You can do and think whatever you want but I'd be gratefull for an opportunity to see the world from a different angle and be able to learn more, considering that I do not come from China saying all this things about wines. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

P.S.
Chateau Margaux is considered to be the best red wine in France ... in the world. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />