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#139394 09/09/02 07:06 PM
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AINTD, wine improves because it sits in a bottle WITHOUT AIR <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> So the plastic cork is just as good (if not better) than a tree-cork. You want a solid, permanent seal.

You know, the original wine makers used resin to cork their amphorae. We only got cork in the 1600s or so when we went to glass bottles. So this isn't an old tradition. It was just a convenient closure given the mass-production of glass bottles they wanted to do <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Almost all cork comes from Europe. It's the European cork which is tainted at the 10% rate. The 10% is a well tested industry rate in all countries. It's not just the US. It may be that you personally just don't notice the taint a lot of the time, you could perhaps drink wines that you think that's part of their normal flavor <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> If you drank strong reds for example you might taste the taint and think it's just an earthy, woody part of the flavor. When the taint gets worse it approaches mouldy cardboard. In any case, it is NOT the real flavor of the wine.

I'm impressed if you say wine isn't expensive <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Most people buy wine as a luxury item, and if you pay good money for a bottle, you don't want to have to pour it down the drain!

It's your choice of course. I'm just saying, if I'm going to pay $20 or $30 for a bottle of something just to go *with* my meal, that I don't want to have thrown that money away on a destroyed bottle that I have to pour out. I couldn't care less what object they use to keep the air out of the bottle. It's the wine that I care about.


P. Pureheart
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#139395 09/10/02 03:23 AM
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To Lisa,

I don't know really. Maybe it's just that corks are easily damaged during transporting. Or maybe the bad europeans keep the best raw material to themselves. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I really haven't had anything wrong with my wine. I guess, I've taken enough for that rate to show itself.

If you like wines so much, then you must have heard about "Vega Sicilia" wine from Ribera del Duero origin. They test their corks three times. Twice in France, and once it gets here, in Spain. I guess that leaves the rate of failure at 0% level for them. A cork from a Vega Sicilia bottle costs $2. Then again, the bottle itself costs over $150.

Of course, not everyone follows THIS extreme high quality procedure, but still, good wines are expensive. You might also know, that the very best wine comes mainly from Priorat (a region in the north of Catalu�a, close to France). Their wines generally are expensive, but not too much. The cheapest bottle would come at ... say ... $12. OK ... information for everyone ... Rioja wines, and Ribera del Duero wines ARE NOT the best and not even close to that, in case you've heard something of that. Rioja makes quite a mediocre wine. Its best years were '94 and '95, but since then - NOTHING. Ribera del Duero simply are not as good as Priorat. By the way, you can congratulate me, I have recently managed to buy what I belive were the last 9 bottles of the third best wine in Spain in year '98 - "Clos Magador '98" from Priorat. It costs over $100, I was fortunate enough to come across a special place where they had 9 normal bottles and one Magnum bottle ... for just $35. But that's of course for special occasions.

There is VERY decent wine at very DECENT prices here. One type in particular is sold at $8 dollars a bottle, I found another special place which gave it away for $4'5 - the proper wine-maker in fact. It is possible that they have low control on corks and some of them fail. But that's what I come to expect from a bottle for $4'5. So far, no problems.

France makes the best wine, they use cork tree corks, then it just should be that way. I don't know what flavour the wine will have while staying in constant contact with plastic. Just don't know. Also, I'm not sure that it will be able to lie for a long time.

Californian wine is rumoured to be quite good actually, but also relatively expensive. In my special place they have some types of american wine, will report back on that later. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

How often do you drink wines and at what price range? From what country?

#139396 09/10/02 09:15 AM
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Bodegas Vega Sicilia, maker of some of Spain's most prestigious wines, issued a recall of its Valbuena 5. Reserva 1994 (94 points, $70) in 2000 after discovering a problem with trichloroanisole taint, which causes "corkiness" in wines. They found of their five cork suppliers, two to have supplied inconsistent quality. So, it bodes well that they have a more stringent quality check on their wines.

Throughout my travels, I have found that sometimes what is considered taint attributed to cork may well be from some inconsistency in the wood of the aging barrels as well. My main concern (beyond any health concern that may arise due to bacteria) is the depletion of cork supply....of destruction to cork trees.

As to the expense of wines - hmmmm, I think it, of course, depends upon your locale and your tastes. I enjoy heavy, woody red wines....others may prefer light, fruity whites. I enjoy trying new wines and sometimes, <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> get an amazing wine for very little cost!! I find that my favorite standbys though are usually in the mid-range (for me eek ) of $25 to $35 USD per bottle. Is that expensive? For me, no.....is it a luxury? Definitely!

Kitty


~*~KATE~*~
#139397 09/10/02 10:15 AM
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There is an article about the French cork trees on the Wine Page. Drop on by.

The types of wines I drink vary greatly. Prime Time Kitty is correct, tastes vary greatly. I enjoy woody wines, but my husband does not. What I drink depends upon the situation. I would not open a Barolo to sip casually with a friend.

The cost often does not reflect quality. When I lived in Italy I would drink wines that cost extremely little, but are of better quality than many expensive wines.

California is a good example of this. One of my favorite wineries is V. Sattui. It does not sell to stores. You can only purchase directly from the winery. One of the chardonnays is great at $13. The quality is far supperior to more expensive California chardonnays available in stores.

One of the joys of wine is finding the little wine or winery that is over looked by the masses.

#139398 09/10/02 01:15 PM
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I agree on little wineries. There some here, that never sell to any stores. They are sort of private. They do like 3000 of bottles a year and nobody knows about them. The quality is usually good. I believe that the more bottles a winery makes, the lower the quality, with exceptions.

Good expensive wines are best when opened in company of good friends and close people on a special occasion. You would'n be drinking a $100 (or even a $50 or $30 one) bottle sitting in the kitchen alone on a regular day with a regular meal.

#139399 09/10/02 01:17 PM
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I also agree that high price often doesn't reflect the quality, if you pay a lot of money, you must be sure what you're paying for. On the other hand, the good expensive wines are worth their money.

#139400 09/10/02 01:24 PM
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I drink wine daily, it's a normal part of my meal <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I drink mostly Californian wine because I really enjoy the variety of quality products they offer. I can have just about any grape variety in any style I wish. I also drink a lot of Australian/New Zealand wine. I enjoy Chianti and Amarone, and a number of French wines. Rioja is our standard with BBQ, and South Africa makes Pinotage which is great for picnics. For dessert I am a HUGE port fan and also love ice wines from Canada. So I really do try to keep my eyes open. I'm always buying new bottles just because I haven't tried that wine before, and try to find wines from all 50 states and from every country in the world I can.

US wines might not be cheap for you because they have to be imported, but here in the US they're really an excellent deal. The wineries do a great job of producting quality wine at reasonable prices. Of course two of my favorite US wines are Cain 5 on the red side and Arrowood Viognier on the white side, which run for around $90/bottle and $40/bottle respectively. so not cheap, unfortunately. For "regular drinking" we don't really house a "house wine" because the house is full of a large assortment of random bottles, no two alike. It's more than I want to try "one of every wine" so I rarely go back to previous ones <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I have drunk my fair share of Spanish wines and I have had a number of them be corked. I don't buy multiple bottles of anything so it's not like I bought 3 of a particular winery's release and all were corked. These are all different releases.

Some of the most high end wineries, that sell bottles at $120/bottle and above, are completely going away from cork. They do NOT want to lose $120 because a single cork destroyed a single bottle, never mind losing that times multiple bottles. They are in fact going with ... SCREWCAPS. I know you're going to cringe at that, but as far as they are concerned and their tests are concerned, this is the PERFECT way to ensure the wine gets to the consumer in the most perfect manner possible. No contamination, no air getting in, a perfect seal.


Lisa, Birding Enthusiast
#139401 09/10/02 02:01 PM
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There is a proverb that says that the one who doesn't risk, doesn't drink champaign. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> A bit on our subject. I haven't seen a single wine, not cheap nor expensive, nor rediculously expensive with a no cork tree cork.

As for the spanish wines. Trust no guides. They all say Rioja is good and Ribera del Duero is good. A lie (mostly). Out of a huge variety of Rioja wines I only drink (rarely), a '95 (I think) year "Marques de Caceres", which by the way is heavy on export side, so you may have seen it. Look for wines from "Priorat", it doesn't mean that they will be excellent, but they are most likely to.

OK, about american wines, that I guess mostly are Californian, at my special place. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

- Shafer Merlot '97 -- $48'93
- Shafer Cabernet Sauvignon '97 -- $62'82
- Shafer Hillside Caber. Sauvignon '96 -- $163'90
- Ridge Montebello Chardonnay '99 -- $56'26

There a dozen more of others as well.
NOTE: a 16% local tax is included in all prices.
NOTE: the prices come in Euroes which slightly lower than a dollar, that means that all the prices are actually lower in a dollar or two.

So, you tell me just how my place special is. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I guess it's a lot more expensive.

#139402 09/10/02 04:12 PM
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Ah, we agree. I find that many California wineries that I used to enjoy have over produced and lowered their quality. They have become too impressed with themselves or have totally catered to the tourist visiting the Napa California wine country.


Professor Harold Hill
#139403 09/10/02 04:15 PM
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Yes, it's true. Many wineries producing high end wines are going with screw caps. There continues a long term study in Australia testing the caps and their effect on wine.


Professor Harold Hill
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