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#1196 04/02/02 08:59 PM
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I'm busy ripping out frames on all of my webpages so that they all use tables instead. Does anybody actually use frames any more? If so, why would you use them instead of tables? Since most traffic comes into pages via search engines, frames seems to make it likely that they'll just come in to a 'frame part' and miss out on the rest ...


P. Pureheart
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#1197 04/04/02 04:42 PM
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I used frames in my tatting site some months ago because I was learning how to use them and had finally cracked it. However I then had to learn how to use pop ups and Javascript to reference all the pages to one another AND write a no-frames site. I might well do what you're doing, Lisa, because it's such a pain writing all the pages when you're updating. The www.oneandone.co.uk site uses Frames throughout and they're an absolute pain because they are extremely slow to load and chock full of small images - I think at the last count it was around 50 per page. They look nice but it spoils an otherwise professionally designed site. And every time you log in you get a second window popping up on top of another - and another - and another.

It's the same thing at www.vu.org - I've had to learn to close down their chat cafe window because it doesn't close automatically nor does it have a close window button and you just end up with dozens of open windows! They can look nice though when well used. All of my pop up windows for my patterns and techniques have a "Close Window" button on my site and they only navigate to the main page (in case someone hotlinks) so you can't get lost.

The one advantage of the pop ups is that you can make it difficult for people to hot link and steal your pages. However someone who knows HTML inside out can do it anyway without difficulty.

Gillian Buchanan
Tatting Host at Bella Online

#1198 04/09/02 09:02 PM
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I think in the end if someone wants to steal your content they can, just by hitting PRINT SCREEN and then using the content. The downside of popups and frames and such is that search engines have a lot of trouble with them, and if someone comes 'in' to your site into one they are stuck.


P. Pureheart
#1199 04/12/02 03:28 PM
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In a perfect world I think all sites should dump frames. Aside from the search engine issues, it is difficult to send links to specific pages on a framed site, so you kind of lose out on the word of mouth aspect. Managing a framed site can also be a pain since you are viewing and editing individual pages out of context. Just my 2 cents.

For more info, read Jacob Nielsen's article on Why Frames Suck (Most of the Time). This site also has great content in terms of creating usable sites.

#1200 04/26/02 07:58 PM
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I agree frames are hard to manage.


Conny Manero
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Waiting for Silverbird

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